Diggin' technology every day

April 20, 2012

Oracle not afraid to leverage Intel architecture

Filed under: Storage — Tags: , — Nate @ 11:28 am

I have bitched and griped in the past about how some storage companies waste their customer’s time, money and resources by not leveraging the Intel/Commodity CPU architecture that some of them tout so heavily.

Someone commented on here in response to my HP SPC-2 results pointing out that the new Oracle 7240 ZFS system has some new SPC-2 results that are very impressive, and today I stumble upon an article from our friends at The Register which talks about a similar 7240 system being tested in the SpecSFS benchmark with equally impressive results.

The main thing missing to me with the NFS results is the inability to provide them over a single file system(not just a global name space as NetApp tries to advertise but truly a single file system), oh, and of course the disclosure of costs with the test.

This 7240 system must be really new, when I went to investigate it recently the product detail pages on Oracle’s own site were returning 404s, but now they work.

I’ll come right out and say it – I’ve always been a bit leery of the ZFS offerings for a true high availability solution, I wrote a bit about this topic a while ago. Though that article focused mainly on people deploying ZFS on cheap crap hardware because they think they can make an equivalent enterprise offering by slapping some software on top of it.

I’m also a Nexenta customer for a very small installation (NAS only, back end is 3PAR). I know Nexenta and Oracle ZFS are worlds apart but at least I am getting some sort of ZFS exposure. ZFS has a lot of really nice concepts, it’s just a matter of how well it works in practice.

For example I was kind of shocked to learn that if a ZFS file system gets full you can’t delete files off of it. I saw one post of a person saying they couldn’t even mount the file system because it was full. Recently I noticed on one of my Nexenta volumes a process that kicks in when a volume gets 50% full. They create a quota’d file system on the volume of 100MB in size, so that when/if the file system is full you can somehow remove this data and get access to your file system again. Quite a hack.

I’ve seen another thread or two about existing Sun ZFS customers who have gotten very frustrated with the lack of support Oracle has given them since Oracle took the helm.

ANYWAYS, back to the topic of exploiting x86-64 architecture. Look at this –

ZFS Storage array base specifications

Clearly Oracle is embracing the processing and memory power that is available to them and I have to give them mad props for that – I wish other companies did the same, the customer would be so much better off.

They do it also by keeping the costs low (relative to the competition anyways), which is equally impressive. Oracle is a company of course that probably likes to drive margins more than most any other company out there, so it is nice to see them doing this.

My main question is – what of Pillar ? What kind of work is being done there? I haven’t noticed anything since Pillar went home to the Larry E mothership. Is it just dieing on the vine? Are these ZFS systems still not suitable for certain situations which Pillar is better at supporting?

Anyways, I can’t believe I’m writing about an Oracle solution twice in the same week but these are both nice things to see come out of one of the bigger players out there.

September 9, 2010

Availability vs Reliability with ZFS

Filed under: Storage — Tags: — Nate @ 7:37 pm

ZFS doesn’t come up with me all that often, but with the recent news of the settlement of the suites I wanted to talk a bit about this.

It all started about two years ago, some folks at the company I was at were proposing using cheap servers and ZFS to address our ‘next generation’ storage needs, at the time we had a bunch of tier 2 storage behind some really high end NAS head units(not configured in any sort of fault tolerant manor).

Anyways in doing some research I came across a fascinating email thread, the most interesting post was this one, and I’ll put it here because really I couldn’t of said it better myself –

I think there’s a misunderstanding concerning underlying concepts. I’ll try to explain my thoughts, please excuse me in case this becomes a bit lengthy. Oh, and I am not a Sun employee or ZFS fan, I’m just a customer who loves and hates ZFS at the same time

You know, ZFS is designed for high *reliability*. This means that ZFS tries to keep your data as safe as possible. This includes faulty hardware, missing hardware (like in your testing scenario) and, to a certain degree, even human mistakes.

But there are limits. For instance, ZFS does not make a backup unnecessary. If there’s a fire and your drives melt, then ZFS can’t do anything. Or if the hardware is lying about the drive geometry. ZFS is part of the operating environment and, as a consequence, relies on the hardware.

so ZFS can’t make unreliable hardware reliable. All it can do is trying to protect the data you saved on it. But it cannot guarantee this to you if the hardware becomes its enemy.

A real world example: I have a 32 core Opteron server here, with 4 FibreChannel Controllers and 4 JBODs with a total of [64] FC drives connected to it, running a RAID 10 using ZFS mirrors. Sounds a lot like high end hardware compared to your NFS server, right? But … I have exactly the same symptom. If one drive fails, an entire JBOD with all 16 included drives hangs, and all zpool access freezes. The reason for this is the miserable JBOD hardware. There’s only one FC loop inside of it, the drives are connected serially to each other, and if one drive dies, the drives behind it go downhill, too. ZFS immediately starts caring about the data, the zpool command hangs (but I still have traffic on the other half of the ZFS mirror!), and it does the right thing by doing so: whatever happens, my data must not be damaged.

A “bad” filesystem like Linux ext2 or ext3 with LVM would just continue, even if the Volume Manager noticed the missing drive or not. That’s what you experienced. But you run in the real danger of having to use fsck at some point. Or, in my case, fsck’ing 5 TB of data on 64 drives. That’s not much fun and results in a lot more downtime than replacing the faulty drive.

What can you expect from ZFS in your case? You can expect it to detect that a drive is missing and to make sure, that your _data integrity_ isn’t compromised. By any means necessary. This may even require to make a system completely unresponsive until a timeout has passed.

But what you described is not a case of reliability. You want something completely different. You expect it to deliver *availability*.

And availability is something ZFS doesn’t promise. It simply can’t deliver this. You have the impression that NTFS and various other Filesystems do so, but that’s an illusion. The next reboot followed by a fsck run will show you why. Availability requires full reliability of every included component of your server as a minimum, and you can’t expect ZFS or any other filesystem to deliver this with cheap IDE hardware.

Usually people want to save money when buying hardware, and ZFS is a good choice to deliver the *reliability* then. But the conceptual stalemate between reliability and availability of such cheap hardware still exists – the hardware is cheap, the file system and services may be reliable, but as soon as you want *availability*, it’s getting expensive again, because you have to buy every hardware component at least twice.

So, you have the choice:

a) If you want *availability*, stay with your old solution. But you have no guarantee that your data is always intact. You’ll always be able to stream your video, but you have no guarantee that the client will receive a stream without drop outs forever.

b) If you want *data integrity*, ZFS is your best friend. But you may have slight availability issues when it comes to hardware defects. You may reduce the percentage of pain during a disaster by spending more money, e.g. by making the SATA controllers redundant and creating a mirror (than controller 1 will hang, but controller 2 will continue working), but you must not forget that your PCI bridges, fans, power supplies, etc. remain single points of failures why can take the entire service down like your pulling of the non-hotpluggable drive did.

c) If you want both, you should buy a second server and create a NFS cluster.

Hope I could help you a bit,


The only thing somewhat lacking from the post is that creating a NFS cluster comes across as not being a very complex thing to do either. Tightly coupling anything really is pretty complicated especially it needs to be stateful (for lack of a better word), in this case the data must be in sync(then there’s the IP-level tolerance, optional MAC takeover, handling fail over of NFS clients to the backup system, failing back, performing online upgrades etc). Just look at the guide Red Hat wrote for building a HA NFS cluster with GFS. Just look at the diagram on page 21 if you don’t want to read the whole thing! Hell I’ll put the digram here because we need more color, note that Red Hat forgot network and fiber switch fault tolerance –

That. Is. A. Lot. Of. Moving. Parts. I was actually considering deploying this at a previous company(not the one that brought up the ZFS discussion), budgets were slashed and I left shortly before the company (and economy) really nose dived.

Also take note in the above example, that only covers the NFS portion of the cluster, they do not talk about how the back end storage is protected. GFS is a shared file system, so the assumption is you are operating on a SAN of some sort. In my case I was planning to use our 3PAR E200 at the time.

Unlike say providing fault tolerance for a network device(setting aside stateful firewalls in this example), since the TCP stack in general is a very forgiving system, storage on the other hand makes so many assumptions about stuff “just working” that you know as well as I do, when storage breaks, usually everything above it breaks hard too, and in crazy complicated ways (I just love to see that “D” in the linux process list after a storage event). Stateful firewall replication is fairly simple by contrast.

Also I suspect that all of the fancy data integrity protection bits are all for naught when running ZFS with things like RAID controllers or higher end storage arrays because of the added abstraction layer(s) that ZFS has no control over, which is probably why so many folks prefer to run RAID in ZFS itself and use “raw” disks.

I think ZFS has some great concepts in it, I’ve never used it because it’s usability on Linux has been very limited (and haven’t had a need for ZFS that was big enough to justify deploying a Solaris system), but certainly give mad props to the evil geniuses who created it.

ZFS Free and clear.. or is it?

Filed under: News,Random Thought,Storage — Tags: , — Nate @ 7:03 pm

So, Sun and Oracle kissed and made up recently over the lawsuits they had against each other, from our best friends at The Register

Whatever the reasons for the mutual agreement to dismiss the lawsuits, ZFS technology product users and end-users can feel relieved that a distracting lawsuit has been cleared away.

Since the terms of the settlement or whatever you want to call it have not been disclosed and there has been no apparent further comment from either side, I certainly wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that other ZFS users are in the clear. I view it as if your running ZFS on Solaris your fine, if your using OpenSolaris your probably fine too. But if your using it on BSD, or even Linux (or whatever other platforms folks have tried to port ZFS to over the years), anything that isn’t directly controlled by Oracle, I wouldn’t be wiping the sweat from my brow just yet.

As is typical with such cases the settlement (at least from what I can see) is specifically between the two companies, there have been no statements or promises from either side from a broader technology standpoint.

I don’t know what OS folks like Coraid, and Compellent use on their ZFS devices, but I recall when investigating NAS options for home use I was checking out Thecus, a model like the N770+ and among the features was a ZFS option. The default file system was ext3, and supported XFS as well. While I am not certain, I was pretty convinced the system was running Linux in order to be supporting XFS and ext3, and not running OpenSolaris. I ended up not going with Thecus because as far as I could tell they were using software RAID. Instead I bought a new workstation(previous computer was many years old), and put a 3Ware 9650SE RAID controller(with a battery backup unit and 256MB of write back cache) along with four 2TB disks(RAID 1+0).

Now as and end user I can see not really being concerned, it is unlikely Netapp or Oracle will go after end users using ZFS on Linux or BSD or whatever, but if your building a product based on it(with the intension of selling/licensing it), and you aren’t using an ‘official’ version, I would stay on my toes. If your product doesn’t compete against any of NetApp’s product lines then you may skirt by without attracting attention. And as long as your not too successful Oracle probably won’t come kicking down your door.

Unless of course further details are released and the air is cleared more about ZFS as a technology in general.

Interestingly enough I was reading a discussion on Slashdot I think, around the time Oracle bought Sun and folks became worried about the future of ZFS in the  open source world. And some were suggesting as far as Linux was concerned btrfs, which is the Linux community’s response to ZFS. Something I didn’t know at the time was that apparently btrfs is also heavily supported by Oracle(or at least it was, I don’t track progress on that project).

Yes I know btrfs is GPL, but as you know I’m sure a file system is a complicated beast to get right. And if Oracle’s involvement in the project is significant and they choose instead to for whatever reason drop support and move resources to ZFS, well that could leave a pretty big gap that will be hard to fill. Just because the code is there doesn’t mean it’s going to magically code itself. I’m sure others contribute, I don’t know what the ratio of support is from Oracle vs outsiders. I recall reading at one point for OpenOffice something like 75-85% of the development was done directly by Sun Engineers. Just something to keep in mind.

I miss reiserfs. I really did like reiserfs v3 way back when. And v4 certainly looked promising (never tried it).

Reminds me of the classic argument that so many make for using open source stuff (not that I don’t like open source, I use it all the time). That is if there is a bug in the program you can go in and fix it yourself. My own experience at many companies is the opposite, they encounter a bug and they go through the usual community channels to try to get a fix. I would say it’s a safe assumption to say in excess of 98% of users of open source code have no ability to comprehend or fix the source they are working with. And that comes from my own experience of working for, really nothing but software companies over the past 10 years. And before anyone asks, I believe it’s equally improbable that a company would hire a contractor to fix a bug in an open source product. I’m sure it does happen, but pretty rare given the number of users out there.

Powered by WordPress